Harris Clarke, GuideCX COO on Building Trust and Systems

Harris Clarke: the big one that comes to mind for me, uh, that everyone listening may remembers the, uh, collapse or almost collapse or what you wanna call it of Silicon Valley Bank. You just do not plan for that. You don't expect that to happen. Your role, uh, fair or unfair in that moment is to be a steady hand. Um, you may on the inside be freaking out and you may be panicking and you may be wondering what's gonna happen next. , But if people can look to you and know that, okay, like at least there's some level of confidence there, I can have some confidence.

Michael Koenig: Hey, it's Michael. If you've been on a Zoom with me lately, you'll notice that you have my full attention. It's because I'm not taking notes. Instead, I rely on fellow and AI meeting assistant to take notes for me, along with tracking action items and decisions, handling recordings, transcripts, and summaries, all in one secure platform. It's kind of like magic [00:01:00] built with security and privacy At its core, fellow is the only AI meeting assistant that thousands of leaders in organizations trust. To capture meeting notes and recordings while keeping your data safe. They're so confident that you'll love it. They're offering an insane deal to you all between two COO's listeners, 90 days of unlimited AI powered note taking and recording completely free. Visit fellow AI slash COO to sign up today and experience the AI meeting assistant trusted by leaders everywhere. Hey, just a quick heads up before we get started. You might notice a few small changes in the sound or video on this one. That's because we actually recorded this conversation in two parts. Halfway through our first session, the platform I was using stopped recording my side entirely, so we switched over to Riverside, which is. Actually pretty good and finish the rest there. A lot of that first take though was too good to lose, so I pulled some of those clips back in. I've edited together so it flows naturally. But if you catch a few transitions, that's just me testing [00:02:00] my new video production skills. Alright, let's jump in.

Michael Koenig: Hello and welcome to Between two COOs. Today I have got a really interesting guest, Harris Clark, the COO of Guide cx. We're going to dive into some fresh angles, and I think you all will love it. We'll be talking about the future of AI and operations, how to stay on top of your game as COO and some practical insights that I'm personally looking forward to learning from. So let's jump right in short and sweet intro because there's so much to talk about. Harris, thanks so much for being here.

Harris Clarke: Thanks for having me, Michael. I appreciate it. It's good talking to you.

Michael Koenig: Now, you've had one of the more unexpected paths into SaaS first and then into a COO, which was the State Department, then the DOJ and now COO at a venture-backed tech company. What, what's the through line that connects that all?

Harris Clarke: I think customer experience? I, [00:03:00] I really, so at the State Department, uh, I was in the office of the chief of protocol. And that office, uh, some may know, some may have never heard of it, is the office that handles all of the, how we engage with other countries. So not the what or the why or you know, the policy, but how are we gonna engage? So when we have a meeting, what does that meeting look like? Where does it take place? What are, what accompanies it? Um, and so it's all about creating a great experience. Um, whether it is a tense meeting or um, a very friendly meeting, you want to create the right experience and you wanna be really mindful of the experience that you're creating. Uh, so I learned a ton there, uh, about how to do that. Some fun stories about like building antique cameras that were gonna be gifts for other heads of state, and there's a whole vault with all of the gifts that have been received from other countries. Um, but it's, uh, maybe for a different podcast. But yeah, it was fun. And I think, yeah, again, [00:04:00] customer experience, it was how do you create a good experience for someone else? Yeah.

Michael Koenig: I think I remember that West Wing episode. But this is you're talking about like micro details, right? Yeah. The things of who sits where, who enters a room first. Like what, can you tell me a little bit about that. Because it sets the stage for what it's going to be. Yeah. And I imagine that there's like some posturing after all. This is politics.

Harris Clarke: So an example would be take the State Department, um, you probably think of a hundred legal examples that might be a little more, um, common for, for everyone to think through. But take the State Department, um, if you've got, uh, a, a foreign leader coming to visit and meet with our president. Uh, maybe you can only imagine the size of the checklist. You know, before we hit record on this podcast, there's a checklist you go through to make sure that everything's working right. Um, the checklist to make sure that everything is in order for a foreign dignitary coming to meet with our president, uh, [00:05:00] is extensive. And there are things that you might look at and think like, do we really need to make sure the flag is angled that way, which is a real one? Um, and the answer is yes in that case. Like things do need to be set up in a very specific way. Um, but the benefit to it is if you've gone through that, you walk into those meetings with total confidence and I mean total confidence. You know exactly who's doing what when, and you can pivot on the fly if things don't go your way because you know exactly what has been set up and what's happening next. Um, and so that would be an example where it takes so much time and someone from the outside looking in might say, Hey, come on. Some of these things don't matter. Um, but it's been a good learning for the tech space that I'm in now to say, Hey, we don't need to go that far, but what are things that we need to make sure we do before we meet with a customer? What are things we need to make sure we do when we're having meetings internally? One thing that my team is, uh, hopefully not sick of hearing me say, [00:06:00] but that we talked about a lot, is having agendas on our meetings, right? If you send someone a calendar invite, um, is it empty just because you kind of assume the title explains it, or is there an agenda in there? Um, especially if you're involving people who weren't expecting the meeting. Um, and we talk about three Ps. I learned this from somebody ages ago, but the purpose, the process, and the payoff, you know, what's the purpose of the meeting? Just essentially, why are we meeting, uh, what's the process? Who's gonna do what during the meeting and what's the payoff? What are we gonna get out of having this meeting? And that way, and you know, my, you know, attempt at leniency there is like, you don't have to literally write out purpose process payoff, and you don't have to literally define who's doing everything in the meeting. But even if you're only putting one sentence for your agenda, that sentence should embody why you're meeting, what's gonna happen during the meeting, and what we're gonna get out of the meeting by the end of it. Yeah.

Michael Koenig: So what I'm hearing there, and this is a through line from both the state department, a [00:07:00] dignitary visit, and then your meetings, which are, much more casual. The through line here is that one, everyone is able to come in prepared because they know exactly what to expect.

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: And two if you do have that knowledge, everything's also always going to be consistent.

Harris Clarke: Yep. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. The last thing I want is someone coming into a meeting and having to do all their thinking in the meeting, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. So if I hit someone with something that's a surprise to them. It, it would've been a lot better if I could have given them that question ahead of time, or if in the meeting someone goes, oh, okay, this is what we need to solve, or this is what we need to talk about. I feel like the preparation portion of that meeting, uh, didn't happen as well as it could have.

Michael Koenig: Now the, we're talking about the federal government, the US government, and boy, government flies, right? That everything gets done really quickly, and I'm sure SaaS is just so slow compared to it. How'd [00:08:00] you adjust? How'd you.

Harris Clarke: Yeah, I think, uh, one of the things that I appreciated learning in government was the reason for bureaucracy, um, bureaucracy. It has a, uh, well-deserved bad rap. Um, but at the highest levels of government, uh, you, you need to make sure that things move, um, extremely deliberately. Uh, the, the implications are so enormous, um, for sometimes even the slightest, uh, policy changes. And so. The, the thoroughness with which even gift exchanging was done, um, is a really good example of something that has you do not need at all in SaaS or when you're trying to move quickly for that matter. But it did plant a seed in me of doing the work of figuring out what should those systems be and then being pretty ruthless about, Hey, well we don't need that [00:09:00] system here. Uh, we need to make sure that people understand these principles and then they can run with it. Um, but it, it has helped me, I think, to, uh. Uh, think a little more deeply about the structure of our company, the, you know, what systems do we have in place and which are we sacrificing and why are we sacrificing them? Um, and so yeah, that, that bureaucracy and the red tape, uh, it, it was kind of a, a lesson in the negative, uh, not negative meaning, you know, not good, but it was like, okay, here's what it can look like and here's what it doesn't need to look like, and here's the, here are the benefits.

Michael Koenig: Well, let's talk about moderation. What I'm hearing here is the state department is in terms of polarities on the absolute extreme and then on the other absolute extreme is nothing. How do you find the happy medium, the happy ground, which is, yeah, there's process in there, but it's not cumbersome [00:10:00] and is very intentional. How do you find that middle ground?

Harris Clarke: That's what I've tried to do with those three Ps in the agenda, the purpose, the process, and the payoff. If nothing more, it helps the meeting organizer think through. Do these people all need to be here? And is this exactly what I want to do with my time in this meeting? Um, I, you know, meetings have been a hot topic for a while, maybe died down a little bit in terms of trendiness lately, but meetings are expensive. They're really expensive. Recurring meetings, uh, can become expensive because sometimes you just meet just because it's on the calendar. Meetings with lots of people are expensive. Um, what, no matter what level of the organization they're in, just, uh, it, it costs a lot of money to have a lot of people in one meeting. And so for me, that middle ground is, Hey, you don't need a formalized checklist, and I don't wanna treat you like, uh, an infant saying, Hey, you need to go through every one of these items. Um, but if you can think through that framework, the purpose of the [00:11:00] meeting, the process of the meeting, and the payoff of the meeting as the meeting organizer, then I hope and I trust, uh, that you'll make better decisions. In terms of who you're inviting to meetings, how long are the meetings? You know, if, if your process, portion of your agenda is not that extensive, is, is a 10 or 15 minute meeting possible as opposed to the default 30 minutes. Um, and if the payoff is only for these people, then maybe let's make sure just those people are involved.

Michael Koenig: You moved into the COO seat by being promoted. I did the same. Yeah. It's very often that happens. I did so many things wrong. I learned so much. How, what was that transition like for you? How have you gone about learning things and how do you looking back on it like, oh, what I knew now.

Harris Clarke: Yeah. Um, you know, I think the, the first thing that you go through is trying to figure, all right, who else can I talk to about this? Who else is out there? Um, and how is this role [00:12:00] functioning at other companies? Um, and what do I need? What can I learn from other people who have already been down this road? And that's one of the reasons why I'm so grateful for what you're doing here, uh, is obviously you had a similar thought, right? Which is like, Hey, who can I talk to? Um, and what else can I learn? And so, yeah, it was a lot of reaching out to people in my network, people that I admired, people who had mentored me. Um, and then I think a, uh, harsh realization sets in that there's, there's no. Better teacher than experience. Mm-hmm. And so trying to get the most I could out of my network then led me to work more with our board of investors, uh, and then also an executive coach. Uh, and that was something that I would highly recommend. Uh, you know, you hear people talk about investing in yourself a lot. This, I think if you are in a role like this, having a coach that has been there and done that, preferably at a variety of different companies and can just be someone that you bounce things off [00:13:00] of

Michael Koenig: mm-hmm.

Harris Clarke: Is incredibly helpful. There are some moments where my coach was able to gimme things I never would've thought of. There were other moments where I would've thought of that, but getting, being able to talk it through was exactly what I needed.

Michael Koenig: Hmm.

Harris Clarke: Uh, and to me, both are well worth the investment. Like you having that person who's a neutral third party, they're not on your board, they're not necessarily in your network, and they're not your boss. Um, but you can speak openly. Is is, is critical.

Michael Koenig: Yeah. So valuable. I've had an executive coach forever you're working with an executive coach, uh, you're working with your board they're connecting you. Yep. What's one of those things early on that you've carried on with you? What's one of those lessons where you learned at the hard way and now have gone forth? And I'm putting you on the spot here. Making you,

Harris Clarke: yeah. Making

Michael Koenig: you dig in, but

Harris Clarke: no, that's, that's okay. There, there is one that stands out. Uh, and it's around what may [00:14:00] seem basic, but again, I think it's the experience is the best teacher. Uh, I think from the outside, looking in at a role like this goal setting, uh, in whatever framework you use, whether it's, you know, OKRs or anything else can seem like a really simple exercise. Comp structures, uh, incentives, you know, matching the financial plan to the business plan, to the execution of what's actually happening day to day. Uh, I think it's really easy to take for granted how much work that takes. Um, and nobody should feel sorry for, uh, you know, for an executive team, that's the work they have to do. Um, not trying to paint it, uh, that way. But if you don't put in significant time into figuring out what levers you're putting in place, then you're gonna accidentally put levers in place that you didn't mean to. And whether it's in your comp plans or your one-on-one, uh, one-on-ones that happen in the business or in your roles and responsibilities and [00:15:00] jobs that you're hiring for, um, you're gonna accidentally, you know, get halfway through a year and realize you're way off. And really the only person you have to blame is yourself. Um, so putting in the work early to match, okay, are these are the goals that we're trying to achieve. Well, these are the teams that we have, these are the job descriptions that those teams need to fulfill. And maybe some of those job descriptions need to change. This is the management that we need of those teams and the reinforcement during the one-on-ones and the type of metrics that need to be looked at. Um, this is the cadence that we should be looking at those metrics, and here's how we'll know if we're on track or off track to hit those goals. I mean, again, there are a million different frameworks and one thing that I feel like I've learned is that there's no perfect framework for goal setting or kind of that strategic execution. What matters is that you stick to it and that you're clear about what you're doing. Um, if, if you're clear and you're aligned internally, [00:16:00] then you can see great movement and great progress. Um, but if you're not, and you're spending too much time trying to find the exact right goal setting structure, then you, you never will.

Michael Koenig: Yeah. And so much so much can get damaged from indecision.

Harris Clarke: Yes. Oof.

Michael Koenig: And the, the thing that I always remind myself when it comes to making big decisions are there are very few decisions that can't be corrected. Yeah. And, I basically frame it through, did anyone die and did anyone go to jail? Everything, like nothing else. We can walk everything else back and, and yeah, maybe we've lost a little time and treasure, but there are very few decisions that are actually catastrophic. Yeah. And I've always found that, um, important to remind myself, just make the decision.

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: Well, I'm always interested in how people end up in the COO seat because there's no direct path to it in any capacity. How did you make the jump [00:17:00] from government to one, the private sector, but also then SaaS?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, so there's one stop in between. Uh, I was working at a, um, for an insurance broker and they had this model called insourcing where they would have a team member work. With, or work for one of their customers and help take care of the relationship. So the, the broker was putting together the benefits packages and the insurance programs for this customer's employee base. And so, um, I would be on site with that company and I would help their team, uh, with everything benefits related. So essentially they did not have to hire a benefits specialist. I could be that specialist. Um, but I was also managing that relationship and the products that we were putting together for them and things like that. And I got a call outta the blue from a friend of mine who was at a company called Domo, [00:18:00] uh, data and analytics company, and he said, Hey, we're starting this CSM program and I think, uh, I think you'd be good for it. Uh, you should check it out. And. Ever since I was little, uh, I, I always really liked technology. Um, I was always fascinated by what was new and what was coming out. And so the idea of working in software and in high tech, uh, appealed to me right off the bat. Um, but then I was trying to understand this role and it was interesting how similar it was to what I was doing, trying to help make sure that people are getting the most outta your products. That if they have questions about them, that you're there to answer them, that you can help educate them, and then also manage the relationship and make sure that it is flourishing, that you're growing with them, that they're staying with you. Um, so was able to make that, uh, that jump. And then at Domo, uh, work kind of all over the post-sales side. And one of the big things that stood out to me was the, and, and maybe this, uh, comes [00:19:00] back to what I saw in government was we would move really fast implementing customers. Um, but then when we got a new customer. Sometimes it would feel like we were starting over. Uh, and I don't mean that too harshly. It's not like we would literally forget everything that we had just done. Um, but it, there wasn't a really templatized approach to saying, Hey, if we just did this digital marketing use case, for example, again, Domo, uh, you know, kind of bi tool. You can connect your data, um, create these dashboards and alerts and conversations around the data. But, um, if we had just helped a company, you know, let's say we just helped Visa build a digital marketing use case, and then Nike came to us and wanted a digital marketing use case. Um, there wasn't a, a super templatized approach to doing that. And then there was just a really manual exchange of information and what was gonna happen next. Um, so, you know, I met a gentleman named Peter Ord, uh, who was starting [00:20:00] this company and talked about, uh. Creating something that was almost like the Domino's Pizza tracker for implementations, and it just clicked right away. He had no way of knowing that this was like exactly what I was frustrated by. Uh, and so, yeah, jumped over, uh, and have been with this company since the beginning. So I've seen it kind of grow and I've, uh, been responsible for helping with each part of the company grow. And so it's been, uh, yeah, it's been a, a fun ride.

Michael Koenig: Fun fun. Domino's thing. So Domino's is headquartered here in Ann Arbor. First off that pizza tracker. Yeah. Pizza tracker's amazing, right? Yeah. For those of you who really wanna understand last mile and operations and great customer experience, seriously go order a Domino's Pizza and do this, and Domino's, you can send the check to me. No but funny thing about it, the Domino's is like this crazy data science company. They take in all of these [00:21:00] externalities, time of year, expected climate, and they use it to determine the precise amount of dough. That specific Yes, the speci, the specific like amount of dough for each location so that everything is refined and it's fascinating and I actually That's wild stalked the, in a polite, friendly way. Yeah. The former chairman of Domino's, he was speaking at a conference and he's like six foot nine. And I went up to him and I just asked, because that's what I do. I ask for advice. I said, Hey, what's the key to leadership that you've learned? And he looked at me and he just said. Be really tall. And I looked at him, I'm like, five 10, and I'm like, well, I'm kind of screwed there. 10. And he's like, yeah, you may want to consider something different. Anyways so that's my dominoes thing there.

Harris Clarke: That's so good.

Michael Koenig: Well, let's talk about the balance. Being a tinkerer sometimes can get in the [00:22:00] way of people Yeah. And get in the way of them doing their job. How do you find that balance? Now that the company has grown, the team has grown, there are more functions, more specialization, which happens as a company gets bigger. How do you find that balance of tinkering and learning, but not stepping on toes and undermining or micromanaging?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, I think, I think curiosity, uh, it's easy. Uh, one of my big fears is, is. Will I make a, a decision or a, a judgment on something thinking that I have all the information, but really missing a lot of the story, having a big blind spot, um, not having all the information. So to me, a lot of it comes down to curiosity. Um, just try to get curious, ask questions. If you're formulating a, a thought or a plan or a strategy, really test it. Um, bring in people that you trust. Ask enough questions to make sure that you can, [00:23:00] uh, you know, battle test what, what you're thinking through. Um, and then I think once you've got a clear picture, you do need to trust your gut, uh, lay out your plan. Um, but hopefully at that point, if you've battle tested it enough, then that means people are involved in it. People are already bought in, people are already aware. Um, and so then hopefully it can move more, move forward a lot more smoothly.

Michael Koenig: So now you've been in the role for a while. What's a leadership lesson that's changed how you approach the.

Harris Clarke: Hmm. You know, uh, I think that, uh, repeating your vision and the strategy that you think it takes to get to that vision, uh, in multiple different ways is really underrated or underappreciated. Hmm. We kind of know that in marketing, you know, you have to have so many touchpoints. [00:24:00] In order for a prospective customer to engage with you, you have to have so much interaction, whether it's on LinkedIn or on your website or with your sales team. Uh, and people, you know, spend a ton of time and a ton of money measuring all of that so they can look at their return on investment and make sure they're getting all those touch points to then get that customer through the door. Um, and I think that analogy. Should stick in our minds more when it comes to leading, which is, uh, if you've got a clear idea of how something should be or how it should function, you may have one meeting or send one email where you feel like you've been really clear.

Michael Koenig: Yeah,

Harris Clarke: that's just not enough. You have to find multiple ways to get your message out. The same way that you would get a campaign out in multiple ways. You wouldn't just do a LinkedIn post, you'd also have a blog article, you'd also have a webinar. You'd also have something on your website. You'd also have a, you know, product, uh, announcement that is tied to it. You'd, um, you know, you'd make [00:25:00] sure that not only is your company talking about it, but you hire a PR firm to get noise going about it. Like you try to saturate because you do not want that point to be missed. Uh, and it's gotta be the same thing. You know, it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of coordination. Um, but if you've do have a clear vision for where you need to go, and you do have a good strategy for how to get there. Then don't you kind of fall flat on the one yard line and not do the extra work it takes to actually implement it and make sure that everyone else is there on the same page?

Michael Koenig: Yeah, internal comms, uh, especially at some of the earlier stages are completely overlooked, but they're so important in making sure that everyone knows the why and the where you're going and how you're gonna get there.

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: It's a good lesson. That's a good lesson for folks. Well, let's talk a a bit about ai. I'm curious now that you've been tinkering a lot, we all have, what's one aspect of your job where you believe you could never be [00:26:00] replaced by ai?

Harris Clarke: One aspect I think that could never be replaced by AI is as corny as it may sound, just that human aspect. I think it is, uh, it's tough to. It is tough to look into somebody's eyes, uh, or fly out and meet with somebody, um, or understand, you know, their needs beyond just the metrics of the business, um, without that human touch. Yeah, I mean, time will tell and let, let's see what happens with this technology and, uh, how fast, how good it's getting and how fast it's getting really good. But, um, I think that especially in the B2B world, uh, it, if it, if it just came down to a metric and a cost, um, there, there wouldn't really be any, uh, any need for that human engagement. Um, but at the end of the [00:27:00] day, it, it does matter. Uh, you are working with people and, you know, kind of coming back to the government examples and, uh, the customer experience examples and even the Domino's Pizza Tracker example, um, and why we started Guide cx, like we wanna make sure that the people involved. Are not anxious about what's happening. We wanna make sure that they know clearly what is happening. Um, and there's a human component to that. Um, and then even thinking back through like the, do you feel valued? Do you feel empowered to do your job? Do you feel like you're making a difference? Um, there's, there's gotta be some level of understanding beyond the work itself, what, what's going on outside of work, um, that drives that. So I think there's some of those components that are, that are gonna be hard or, or take some time, uh, for AI to, to help with. There are a ton of things that is helping with today. Um, but I, I don't think that's one.

Michael Koenig: Well, one of the really hard things to do, uh, and this is outside of ai, but just in general, is to actually figure [00:28:00] out. Ways to build processes around people that encourages them, that recognizes the accomplishments that they're doing, but also the difficulty and, and making them feel valued. So let's think about it this way, if you could spend more time on that, right? You'd have a happier workforce. What would you have to unload and could it be unloaded to ai?

Harris Clarke: I love this. I, this is something we're thinking about a lot and we got great advice, uh, from our board to look at, you know, not only ways we can incorporate AI into our product so our customers can use it, but what can we do internally? Um, and one of the big things is coaching. Uh, and I would give anyone the advice, uh, to start this today so you can, you know, if you have in your mind, you know, this is what a perfect business review with a customer looks like, or the perfect support ticket, or the perfect. Implementation call or the perfect [00:29:00] sales demo or, or whatever it is. Um, then you do the work to document that and create a rubric and hopefully you've already got it written out somewhere, but if you don't write it out so that you could hand it to someone else and they could do that same coaching and now with whatever, you know, LLM system you're using, um, you can give it that rubric and then take a call transcript or take a support ticket or take a, whatever it is, and you can upload it and say, Hey, grade this based off of this rubric and some of the thi and then, you know, you can do some testing to figure, okay, hold on. You're not grading the way that I would've graded here, or you're not grad and, and you can tweak it, but eventually you can get that prompt. To a point where it is giving and, and this just happened this morning. Um, I just got one, or I saw one come through for someone on our support team that was coaching themselves essentially [00:30:00] with this AI tool. And it was, it was spot on. The advice that it gave this person is exactly what I would've given this person. And even the tone and the delivery of it was fantastic. It was building them up, not discouraging them. So you, these tools can get really good at being a second version of you for things that you can document how you would want to grade it. So in our example, we were using, uh, I wanna give some specifics just for anyone listening. We're using Gemini, uh, Google's, you know, kind of, uh, like chat GPT. And in using Gemini they have these things called gems. And so you can. Tell that gym, this is exactly what I want you to focus on. Um, and then it can be used over and over and over again. Um, on the chat GPT side, they have these custom gpt that you can build that are super similar. Um, and anyway, uh, those are really, really helpful, uh, and I think can help offload a lot of the training. Um, so that, [00:31:00] yeah, you can focus on some of those other things.

Michael Koenig: Now that's really interesting because you're talking about an interaction moment between two people, between you and your team. Yeah. Which is one of the things that you said cannot be replaced. But there are certain aspects here, which is really interesting, which is your interaction as a coach to your team

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: Is something that could potentially be replaced and that you're seeing enhanced and done successfully. Yeah. So it's two sides of the coin there.

Harris Clarke: Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, that's crazy. And I think in, in a perfect world, then that coaching, uh, on the AI side is then turning into a conversation, right? Say, Hey, do you agree with this? Um, here's what stood out to me. Here's what didn't. And then I, and I think what I've seen a lot with ai, and I hope others are too, is just the leveling up that it helps you do, right? Mm. So if I don't have to spend my time. Reviewing all the calls, um, and writing my own notes to deliver that coaching. Then what I can spend my [00:32:00] time with is reviewing the coaching that was given, that was given, and how are we gonna implement this or do, or like I said earlier, do we agree with this? Yes, we both agree. All right, great. Let's move on. How are we gonna implement it? Um, and uh, then kind of, yeah, going back to those, that, uh, three, uh, part framework of how people are doing.

Michael Koenig: Yeah.

Harris Clarke: Um, you can just kind of get to more faster, I think with that help.

Michael Koenig: What are some other ways that you've found applying AI in your role in the day-to-day that have been really effective for you?

Harris Clarke: Um, one of the big things that, uh, I, I've been doing is, you know, as you think about updating your investors or working with the rest of your executive team, um, taking, you know, whether you have weekly or monthly or quarterly updates that you're getting. Uh, in putting those in a system, again, we're kind of in the Google suite of products, so there are other tools like this, but there's something called Notebook lm, where you can [00:33:00] upload assets and then essentially use the system to say, Hey, what trends are you seeing here or there? Um, and one thing that I really like about it, just for anyone who is wary of AI or cautious of it, it gives you essentially footnotes or, or it, it sites. Sources. Um, and so as you're reading its responses, you can click through and get a good sense pretty quickly on. If its answer is what they call a hallucination, where it's kind of making things up or if it's pretty accurate, right? So it'll say something like, Hey, this particular metric is trended this way and here are some potential reasons. It will have little footnotes for each of those reasons. You can click in and it'll bring you to the source so you can get a sense for, oh no, that's not the right source at all, or that's not what that source intended. Um, and you can kind of coach it or, uh, it can give you the, the. Uh, the confidence to take its, uh, its, you know, its summation, uh, of things, but, so that's been really helpful for Yeah, when need to putting [00:34:00] together some analysis, uh, whether it's for an investor or, or a team member, or just for your own brainstorming on, hey, what, what do we need to be tweaking or thinking, uh, what's around the corner? Because you can not, not only do that with your updates, but you can do that with, um, you know, intelligence that you're getting about the market or how things are happening or what things are, you know, shaping up. Uh, and yeah, just super helpful to have a, uh, a faster thinking brain right next to you that you can be the one nudging it and prompting it, and it can come back with, uh, information that in the past would've taken days, weeks, months to gather, but now you can take a week going back and forth with it and just have a ton of information ready.

Michael Koenig: That's so interesting. And let's shift gears a little bit because we're starting to talk about efficiencies and certainly with operations, there's a big part of that. Can you gimme an idea? What's the operating system that you use the framework that you use at Guide cx, whether it's OKRs or something else? What do you [00:35:00] guys do?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, we have, um, this is another one where, you know, we, we've kind of. Used multiple different, uh, formalized frameworks. And I think at the end of the day, I, OKRs is one that, uh, speaks to me the most. I love the idea of like the, the big aspirational target. Mm-hmm. Um, and then working to, uh, achieve those with your key results and seeing how close you can get and not being discouraged, um, but kind of continuing to press forward and figuring out what you need to adjust. Um. I think each company is different. And then going back to the idea of just how do you, how you beat the drum and how are you making sure that those things, um, are seen and understood throughout the organization. Um, and so for us, you know, we've got kind of an annual strategy, uh, that we put together, and then we've got, uh, team metrics, uh, that are not only kind of coached, uh, in the one-on-ones, but also at the bonus level. Uh, [00:36:00] and then, you know, you've got TVs throughout the office. You've got kind of, uh, standard reports that go out. Uh, we do a weekly all hands, um, stand up, uh, where each department will report, uh, about once a month on things that are going well, challenges they're having, um, and kind of how they're pacing towards what they're trying to accomplish. Um, and so yeah, trying to be as, as transparent as possible with all those things. So nobody's in the dark on, uh, yeah. How things are progressing to goal.

Michael Koenig: Let's talk about the annual strategy. It's something that comes up a lot, and to be frank, I've actually never gone in with a guest on this podcast and talked about how is, what does that strategy session look like? How do you go about and review and come up with the strategy for the upcoming year? What does that process look like for you all?

Harris Clarke: I think, uh, that process should be really hard, uh, and then really inspiring.

Michael Koenig: Hmm.

Harris Clarke: Like I, I, I think to do a [00:37:00] good job, you've gotta take a really honest look at what has happened in the previous year. And you can't magically do this at midnight on New Year's Eve and be ready January 1st. Um, so you gotta start end of Q3, beginning of Q4. Um, and obviously you, you, you're gonna let the rest of the year play out. Um, but you gotta take a hard look at how Q1, Q2, Q3, and however far into Q4 you are. Um, and look, every pro, every company from Microsoft and Google and Apple and Amazon, um, down to your company, whoever's listening, every company has challenges. So don't, don't let yourself, don't let your ego get too hurt or bruised by the challenges you see, like you've got problems. So does Tim Cook at Apple? Um, the, the challenge, but where it should get inspiring is do you know enough to solve those problems? [00:38:00] And if you're close enough to your team, if you're close enough to your customers, um, if you know your space well enough, then, then you do. And you should have some confidence sitting with the rest of your leadership team. Um, and hopefully coming with some data and some examples. As to what needs to be done to take the next step forward. And there's that, um, kind of cliche about not boiling the ocean, um, which I think is really relevant when it comes to annual planning. Like you, you may not go from the metric that you're at right now, all the way to exactly where, you know, you need to get, but what's the next step and what does that look like, um, and how can you model that out. And then, um, last thing there is, I think, uh, again, back to the boiling, the ocean comment. It's easy to have a ton of initiatives because there are a ton of things to do and there always are, but. If you can keep it to two to three, maybe four at the most, um, then you've got a real [00:39:00] shot at doing again, that last one yard of work of really implementing the strategy. Um, if you can keep it simple, if, if it's high level enough, then your, as your strategy and your tactics get, can get a lot more specific. And then you can do a better job of beating the drum throughout the year and making sure that you're setting that goal and that vision, uh, 'cause people wanna see someone not only with the vision, um, but with the hard work and the optimism to lead them there, right? Um, if you've got the vision but then they don't see your hard work in getting there, or you're not optimistic about how to get there, that, that bleeds through. Um, but if you can tie those three together and be pushing throughout the year, um, and not be changing course. Every month or three months. Mm-hmm. Um, then you can, you can really see a business move. And everyone wants to do well, quarter over quarter. Everyone wants to do well year over year. Um, but five years is, is a lot longer than it sounds. 10 years, a [00:40:00] lot longer than it sounds. And if you can just be disciplined and doing the right things month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year, then after five years, after 10 years, you'll be blown away by how much progress you can make. Um, but if you try to do it all, if you try to stuff every initiative you can think of, then um, it's not gonna work.

Michael Koenig: Let's talk about optimism. How do you balance finding the right amount of optimism, not being over optimistic to where your team is looking at it and going, gosh, Harris is off in the clouds here, but also not being negative and not being super pessimistic. Like how do you find that balance to one. Have everyone still feeling good, but also being very realistic about perhaps shortcomings?

Harris Clarke: Yeah. Um, I think, uh, the, um, you know, they say variety is the spice of life. [00:41:00] Like, I, you, you don't wanna be somebody who is always, Hey, there's never a problem. We're always okay. Um, everybody, you know, wants to work with somebody who's real.

Michael Koenig: Mm-hmm.

Harris Clarke: And also you deserve to be able to, uh, to be frustrated and to be, uh, concerned or alarmed or whatever the case may be. But I think it matters a lot that you respect and appreciate who gets that side of you, who, that you know, when you're venting or uh, when you need to. Uh, I dunno, uh, work through some things. Um, where do you open that up to? Um, you know, you could open that up to your direct manager. Uh, you can open that up to a mentor outside of the company. You could open that up to, uh, you know, spouse or friend or someone that you trust outside of the company. Um, but, you know, think clearly about, I, I think in this role you don't really have the luxury of just [00:42:00] spouting off. Like, you need to think good and hard about what message you're sending, um, with each interaction that you're having. Um, and so, yeah, I, I think you, you know, you take the time to do that. But then the other thing that comes to mind for me is, um, you know, realistic optimism is based on being able to see how your vision and your strategy work together. Like. If we are gonna be the best X, y, Z in the world, if we are gonna conquer this, if we are gonna dominate that, if we're gonna, you know, be a multi-billion dollar whatever, uh, well great. Like how, how are we going to get there? And I feel most optimistic when I believe in the strategy we have really is the right one to get us there. So this kind of comes back to doing that work of really understanding and taking the hard look in the mirror about what needs to change in the business and then knowing well enough from your team, your [00:43:00] customers, and your industry that you do know what to do to get you there. Um, 'cause if you have that, I mean. You don't, you don't want to. People can tell if you're faking optimism, you don't wanna fake optimism. Mm-hmm. Um, but if you can see those pieces all connecting together, then uh, you won't have to fake it. It, it will be really exciting to come into work even on hard days.

Michael Koenig: So, uh, you should make a note when you write your book. Realistic Optimism. That's gonna be a great title.

Harris Clarke: I like

Michael Koenig: it. It's the next great, next Great American novel I like. Yep. Well, you talked about venting. It's can be Lonely at the top. And one of the things that you mentioned about being really careful with your words, everyone's, anyone you interact with as the COO, they're gonna remember every single word you say and you may walk away from it and completely forget about the conversation.

Harris Clarke: Yeah,

Michael Koenig: it's a lot of pressure. How do you approach that? How do you, [00:44:00] because you have to maintain that realistic optimism and at the same time be real.

Harris Clarke: Yeah. Two, two things, uh, for me. One is where possible to try to not let an interaction be the only interaction.

Michael Koenig: Mm-hmm.

Harris Clarke: Um, so try to try to meet with team members at whatever cadence, I guess, depending on the scale of your team or your company, uh, works for you. Um, I try to meet with everyone, um, at least. Quarterly. Everyone who reports to me I meet with weekly. Um, and I try to meet with everyone else at least quarterly. And that helps make sure that if there is one interaction that, you know, maybe with the best intentions wasn't what it should have been, that there is another one coming up. Um, and then another thing, um, that comes to mind is like listening to that voice in your head. If there is anything in you that's like, oh, I did [00:45:00] that come across right? Or did I, did I just kind of misunderstand? Or, uh, and I think we all have that. Sometimes we walk away from interaction and sometimes we don't. Sometimes we walk right. Think that that was fine and find out later that it wasn't. But if there is something in nagging at you, reach out. You know, uh, everyone appreciates it. Uh, and you'll be better for it. Um, and yeah, just make sure that, hey, I hope, I hope this was clear. This is what I intended, not this, um. You know, sometimes that's led to good conversations with me where someone's like, oh, thank you. Okay. I'm, I'm so glad that you said that. And other times someone said, oh yeah, no, that's not how I took it at all. And great, move on.

Michael Koenig: And then they say, well, now I'm taking it that way.

Harris Clarke: Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Koenig: So you hop into guide cx, VP F operation, excuse me, VP Operations coming from customer success. What does operations look like at Guide cx? [00:46:00] Just where, what type of COO are you?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, great question. I, uh, and so I started it, it was, uh, me and two other guys at Guide cx. Um, so my first title was generously director of Operations, but it, it was, it was me. Um, and I, again, back to the just kind of itch that, uh, I wanted to scratch for a long time of entrepreneurship. Um, this opportunity to take everything that I'd learned at Domo, um, working with. Fortune 500 companies and small companies and going through these big data projects and helping them build out their analytics and make decisions about what they do in their business. Um, I was excited to try my hand at, at starting my own thing. Um, and I met, you know, these, these great guys again through a friend. Um, just a, a plug for keeping good friends and, uh, not burning bridges and leaving good impressions. 'cause again, a friend called me up, different friend this time said, Hey, I think you need to meet these guys. I think this would be right up your [00:47:00] alley and something you'd be really good at. Um, and so in the very beginning of what operations looked like was just everything postsales and just how do we help our customers get the most Out of this guide, CX uh, started this category of onboarding software, client onboarding software. So this is not the HR space of new employee onboarding, but this is onboarding a company, uh, from a B2B standpoint. And before guide, there wasn't really anything dedicated to that. So there were great project, there were, and there are great project management tools. Um, but they're built for, uh, and I don't mean this as as a negative, but general project management, right? I, I can put anything I'm doing in a, um, in a project management tool. Whereas we wanted to build something that was specific for the customer onboarding moment in the customer experience lifecycle. And so when you're starting a brand new type of software, it's really critical that the operational side of the business is not only helping make sure the business runs well, but is making sure [00:48:00] customers are getting the most they can, um, out of it so that we can continue to grow, uh, as a company. So a lot of it was on the customer facing side, uh, to ensure people were getting the most out of it.

Michael Koenig: And I love this, doesn't happen often, but you, yourself, I'm imagining now, are your own customer essentially. Because if you're running customer success, you have guide cx, which is all about customer success and onboarding. So you are essentially informing product based on your use of the pro, your use of the product. Is that uh,

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: And if you guys didn't do that, then we, we need to talk because that would've been crazy.

Harris Clarke: Yeah, you picked that up a lot faster than most people do. You're exactly right. We, we use it. Um, we, uh, and, and we love it. And yeah, we're, we're the first in line in terms of having, uh, you know, not only being a cheerleader for it, but also having enhancement requests for it. Um, having something that helps you work better with brand new customers is just. Game changing. So much [00:49:00] churn and so much challenge, uh, comes from failure to launch, comes from a bad onboarding experience. Um, there are all kinds of studies out there that have been done everywhere from like Forrester and Gartner to, to more around how most churn actually comes from that first impression comes during the onboarding phase. So whatever you can do to make that work better, uh, is, is much

Michael Koenig: mm-hmm.

Harris Clarke: Much, uh, appreciated.

Michael Koenig: And it goes to implementation as well. If it's a smooth onboarding, then yeah. The implementation is smooth and you're gonna be successful with the product now.

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: I love this because you've already, as you mentioned, done the upfront investment of one, acquiring the customer. Two,

Harris Clarke: yeah.

Michael Koenig: Going through, when I say acquiring, I mean getting eyeballs on your system and getting them inter interested. Then there's the sales process and there's negotiation, then there's the signing, et cetera. And so not just dropping the ball and lobbing it over now to your implementation or your customer [00:50:00] success team, but actually having a similar rigor to how you actually get someone on the platform is genius. Now, you talked a lot about automation There certainly we're coming back to AI at this point.

Harris Clarke: Yeah.

Michael Koenig: AI's great at doing certain things in this case, how are you all embracing it within the product itself? And also just how do you think about this when it moves so quickly and there has to be investment?

Harris Clarke: Yep.

Michael Koenig: How do you approach that?

Harris Clarke: Yeah. Uh, depending on when this, uh, podcast airs, um, people will either already have or about to have, um, we we want to use. And I think, I guess zooming out for a second, you make a great point about how fast this technology lets people move. It is so critical going back to the strategy segment of our conversation [00:51:00] that you know what to prioritize because you could spend so much time implementing AI technology in something that is just not. That meaningful to your team internally or to your customers externally or to the market that you serve. And so all these tools, no matter how great they are, they're going to depend on your ability to make good decisions. They're gonna depend on your ability to prioritize what really matters for your business. And so for us, one of the things that really matters is helping those individuals who onboard new customers, um, have superpowers. We want them to have a sidekick. We want them to have. A genius analyst sitting with them who can analyze the sentiment of the customer, who can run through not only the forecast of the project, but can also provide mitigation plans and then enact those [00:52:00] mitigation plans. Hmm. Uh, and something that can really help take over and drive when it's, it can sometimes be challenging to engage your customer, as surprising as that may be. They just bought the software, but sometimes it's hard to, 'cause guess what? They have a day job and, um, so. AI that helps you not only see, uh, at a programmatic level what's working and what isn't, um, but at the individual level and then at the individual, not the individual company level, but also the individual people that you're working with at that company, what's really moving the needle for them, or where we need better engagement or not. Um, yeah, we got, we got a lot of fun things coming in that world.

Michael Koenig: So prioritizing what really matters in this case. And that also goes back to your strategy sessions, all of these things. So certainly with the, the strategy session that is broader, as you discussed, it's more macro, 10,000 foot. And then in terms of the implementation with [00:53:00] ai, that's gonna be much smaller mu or rather, not necessarily smaller, but much more micro in terms of. Achieving those, those strategies. I don't really know where I was going with that, but there's some sort of distinction there. I'll probably cut that part. But super, super interesting. Well, Harris, it it's time for my last and favorite question. We've all had those moments in the seat where we've seen something just completely bonkers, something completely wild and thought through ourselves. I never thought I'd see that. What's one you can share with us?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, there, uh, there's a long list. Um, but one immediately comes to mind. Uh, and I would just say, yeah, there you, you will see lots of things that you thought that you never would expect to see, um, or things you didn't think you should have to see. Um, but the big one that comes to mind for me, uh, that everyone listening may remembers the, [00:54:00] uh, collapse or almost collapse or what you wanna call it of Silicon Valley Bank. Um, that was the bank that we were using. And that is just not you. You just do not plan for that. You don't expect that to happen. Uh, the stress of making payroll or not, or just the, the fear of the unknown. Um, I think that happened on a Thursday and turned into a lot of people's worst professional weekend. And, um, one, one thing that I learned through that, um, that has also translated into other unknowables or unforeseeable that, that have come up along the way, um, is that your role, uh, fair or unfair in that moment is to be a steady hand. Um, you may on the inside be freaking out and you may be panicking and you may be wondering what's gonna happen next. Um. And save those conversations for your executive coach, for the people that you [00:55:00] trust in your personal life. Um, but you have the responsibility, uh, as a leader in that seat to put a plan together, um, and create, uh, a clear vision for what's gonna happen next, um, without blowing smoke. You know, to the theme earlier of being transparent, there's some things you don't know and some things you do know. Um, but if people can look to you and know that, okay, like at least there's some level of confidence there, I can have some confidence. Um, and a lot of those moments are really tricky because the business can't just stop working, right? You can't. And in, in some things that are, you know, as extreme as that, I if, if people are panicked to a certain degree, they can't do their jobs, you know, how am I gonna get on this call with this customer? How am I gonna write this line of code? How am I gonna prepare for this sales demo if I'm worried about. You know, tomorrow. So you have the responsibility to be the steady hand, um, [00:56:00] and over communicate what's happening. It's really easy, I think, for a leader to assume that if I communicate at once in one way, everybody understands and we're good, but that is not the case. Um, and you can look at all sorts of, you know, neuroscience from the marketing world, or from behavioral scientists or change management experts. You need to communicate the same thing in multiple different ways over and over and over again. So if you sent out the best email of your life, great. You need to follow that up with, uh, an in-person. Statement for an all hands, or you need to follow that up with an open q and a session. Um, or you need to follow that up with individual slacks to team members, or you need to, you know, repeat the same email, uh, a few different times over the next couple weeks. Um, you need to beat the drum over and over and over again because people are gonna miss it. People are not gonna be paying attention. They'll only get [00:57:00] part of it. Um, and also one thing I've learned, the more you're able to repeat, uh, what you think is the same thing, you refine it better. So you will get better at clarifying. And as you get more information, inserting that new information into the same message. Um, and so yeah, you, you've gotta take the responsibility again, fair or unfair as you may see it, to be that steady hand. Um, and to be consistent and frequent in your communication, in your communication methods and, and just in making sure that people are on the same page.

Michael Koenig: wonderful. Yeah. Well, Harris, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for, uh, for coming on. Hey, thank you. Where can, uh, people keep up with you and learn more?

Harris Clarke: Yeah, I'd love, I, I'm always happy to talk more specifics or in detail, uh, with anyone. So yeah, reach out on LinkedIn. I'm, I'm happy to, to engage there. And then, uh, we can jump on calls or, or Zooms or whatever works.

Michael Koenig: Well, I'll drop that. Uh, I'll drop your LinkedIn in the show notes, folks. And that's Clark with an E? [00:58:00] That's

Harris Clarke: right. Yep.

Michael Koenig: Well, there you have it. Thank you so much to you all for listening to Between two COOs and I'm your host, Michael Koenig. Very special thank you to Harris. Thanks so much for joining me. Tune in next time for our next co o chat on between two COOs and be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen. And if you have a minute, drop us a review so others can get great advice from phenomenal COOs like Harris. Thanks for listening. Tune in next time, and until then, so long