Joe Meyer, ExecThread CEO on Landing Hidden Exec Roles

Michael Koenig: Hello and welcome to Between Two COOs, where phenomenal chief operating officers come to share their knowledge, advice, and crazy stories. I'm your host, Michael Koenig, and I'm excited to welcome our guest, Joe Meyer. Founder and CEO of ExecThread, a crowdsourcing platform and premium job sharing network that enables professionals to access the hidden job market of executive-level job opportunities that just don't get posted to job boards. Joe's a successful startup CEO and operating executive at high-growth tech companies that have been acquired by AOL, Apple, and eBay. Beyond that, Joe has an accomplished track record of serving in boards and advisory roles for companies that have also realized successful exits to the likes of Autodesk, Etsy, and MediaOcean, among others. Welcome, Joe. Thanks for being here. I'm excited to have you on.

Joe Meyer: Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it, Michael.

Michael Koenig: Yeah, absolutely. So it's worth noting that you are the first CEO that we've had on, and this is a great opportunity for us to learn about your experience in working with COOs. And I'm also excited to have you on because ExecThread, the company that you're building and working on right now, fills a huge gap for not only COOs but all C-suite executives looking for their next job. So to start off, what was your path to becoming a CEO and why did you build ExecThread?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, so ExecThread is technically my third or fourth CEO, uh, gig. Um, my first two were a attempts at starting or founding a company. Both ultimately did not wind up succeeding, but it was earlier in my career and it kind of gave me some perspective on maybe what it takes and, you know, dispelling the myth versus the reality of the role. My first, I would say, real CEO gig, and I say real is because, you know, from beginning to end or near beginning to end and a true operating role was with HopStop, which was my last startup, which I took over from the founder. So I really kind of consider that my first real CEO gig. Uh, you know, the other two were kind of from idea stage to funding but never kind of got much past that. Um, HopStop was my first real kind of taking over a real company and, you know, going through the trials and tribulations of that and taking it all the way through the finish line and having some pretty big potholes along the way. And then Exec Thread is now a founding CEO sort of opportunity. At the end of the day, I consider myself more of an entrepreneurial operator, to be quite honest, more so than an entrepreneur. Yes, I'm the founder of this company, but the day-to-day of my role and the day-to-day of my role at HopStop was really as a hardcore roll-your-sleeves-up a multifunctional operator, uh, so maybe very analogous to a COO, to be quite honest.

Michael Koenig: That's quite interesting, and I definitely want to get back to that, uh, because there is potentially some tension that could arise from that type of involvement from a CEO. But before we get to that, can you tell us a little bit about ExecThread and How did you end up founding the company and building it? What brought you there?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, quite simply, I was getting approached by executive recruiters more and more over the years, especially as my career became, you know, more from the outside looking in successful, and started getting approached by more and more executive recruiters. I was frustrated that I— I was pleased that I was getting approached for opportunities, but displeased with the fact that I couldn't find out about the opportunities that I wasn't getting approached for, and I had no way of accessing them or finding out about them, or at least no way efficiently to do so, or at scale. And I thought, I probably am not the only professional who would like more access to to these hidden or confidential opportunities. The only way to find out about them prior to ExecThread was to be fortunately approached by an executive recruiter for them, which, you know, how many times does that happen a year? A handful maybe, if you're lucky. Maybe you find out about another handful from your network. Maybe you find out about maybe up to a dozen of these sorts of opportunities a year if you're lucky. But how many are you not finding out about and how many do you wish you could find out about? And that's the problem that ExecThread solves and hence the opportunity that we're pursuing.

Michael Koenig: So what does that look like? How do you all solve it?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, so I started out in a very grassroots passion project sort of way. I was at Apple post-acquisition and I came up with this kind of light bulb moment at a time when I really wasn't too interested in starting another company. And, you know, lo and behold, I came up with an idea that I thought on the surface level had legs. And rather than leave Apple and raise money against an idea, I decided to grassroots it and incubate it as a passion project. And I just reached out to people in my network, not first-degree connections, more kind of second and third-degree connections, or I should say first-degree connections who I hadn't spoken to in a number of years in markets outside of San Francisco and New York, i.e., non-early adopter markets, and asked them if they would be willing to share career opportunities for which they were approached with me if I shared mine with them. And I also said, if you say yes to that, I'm also going to share it with the other folks I'm asking the same question to, and are you cool with that? And everyone was like, sounds like a great idea, count me in. Started out with a few dozen people in my extended network, and then those folks started inviting people in their network to this informal group. And then those people who I didn't even know who were being invited started sharing job opportunities with us, and I was like, this is pretty interesting. And, you know, of the first 100 that were shared, at least 2 or 3 were roles that I felt I was qualified for. I was quasi-interested in, but was never gonna get approached for, if you know what I mean. So that kinda proved the theory.

Michael Koenig: That's fascinating, especially what you've accomplished here with ExecThread is lightning in a bottle in that it's partially, value is derived from people participating and sharing. And so there is some, let's say, barrier to receiving value where you have to share in order to gain value. That's very hard to do.

Joe Meyer: Yeah, it is hard to do, especially among this constituency. Let's just call it, you know, senior professionals, you know, VP through C-suite. These are busy people, preoccupied most of the time, prioritizing of their time and knowledge.. And yeah, so I felt like we are, we were and still are kind of changing habits in some ways. You know, at the end of the day, it's a marketplace though, and supply and demand, and demand chases that supply, and the supply is the jobs, and demand is the interest for those jobs. So there's far more demand than there is supply, like in any marketplace. You know, at eBay, as you mentioned earlier in my career, I spent a couple of years there as a GM. You know, we had far many more buyers than sellers, but we had enough sellers to whet the appetite of the buyers. Same thing here with Executrix. And now that we have a critical mass of members, over 125,000, yet it still remains vetted and curated, you know, hiring companies and recruiters are starting to bring their inventory of high-ranking jobs to us as a way to get them in front of the right folks. As another talent sourcing strategy.

Michael Koenig: And so you've created demand for those exec recruiting companies, which can be quite substantial in having your critical mass. And what you've also done, which is remarkable beyond the marketplace, is you've created this virtuous cycle where the more people on board, the more opportunities, the more opportunities, the more people on board.

Joe Meyer: Yeah, that's, that's right. And at the end of the day, we knew that the core asset of the company, um, and the core, uh, value of the company was the member network. Um, and we knew we needed to vet that, curate that, uh, service that community and keep that community engaged. And as long as we did that and continued bringing value to that community, the community would continue to refer the service to other professionals and peers in their network, and the community would continue to grow. And once you reach critical mass, you know, other opportunities surface and materialize.

Michael Koenig: So getting back to the hands-on approach that you described in terms of your style, how do you marry that with the operators that you're working with?

Joe Meyer: So to be quite honest, I think, um, you know, so I am pretty hands-on, you know. I know when to, uh, let loose of the reins. I know when to— more often than not, I should say— I know, I know when to kind of grab the reins and pull on them a little. At the end of the day though, I run and operate small companies, uh, you know. I'm not running and operating a 1,000-person employee company. HopStop never got above 15 employees, yet we competed against Google Maps. ExecThread has never gotten above 15 to 20 employees and has usually been around a dozen. So it's kind of all hands on deck sort of approach, and it's very flat. And, you know, it's not like the CEO can sit up on some, you know, echelon and just kind of delegate and not do anything. You know, if I don't contribute in an operating sort of way, then, you know, I'm just contributing to overhead at that point. So, you know, you know, the reality is, is that we don't have all of those key management team roles filled because we're a small company. So we have operators on our team, we have people that actually do the work, not tell people what to do. It's a big difference.

Michael Koenig: It definitely is, and there's a lot of excitement and passion for joining smaller companies, especially when you're an operator, because you get to flex those muscles not only in things that you enjoy doing, but perhaps some things that you've never done before. In terms of that excitement, how do you harness it while bringing on really experienced and capable folks?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, I mean, to be quite honest, my last two startups, I've kept it kind of lean and mean, and I've also kept the talent on the team, um, more on the inexperienced side than on the overly experienced side, to be quite honest. Young professionals who are earlier in their career who are looking for kind of more opportunity rather than less, more responsibility rather than less. More autonomy rather than less, more cause-effect rather than less, as opposed to hiring folks who expect that. I'm looking for people that want that, striving for that, getting it for the first time. So, selectively, I've brought on folks with more experience than that, but with small companies of a dozen to two dozen people, three dozen people, And so it certainly sounds like there must be a component of mentorship and professional development that you're focusing on with the people that you're bringing on board.

Michael Koenig: How do you approach that?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, I'd say it's more informal than formal. You know, I'm a big kind of fan of David Wright, who used to be the captain of the New York Mets before he retired, and they always used to ask him a similar question, and he always said, I just lead by example. I do what I do on the field. I I come to the field every day and the stadium every day. I work hard. I have a strong work ethic. I show up early to practice. I stay late. I'm trying to get better all the time. And other people learn from seeing me exhibit those traits. I feel somewhat similar. I don't take a proactive mentorship sort of approach. Again, small company, you don't really have time to do that sort of formal mentorship approach. It's more kind of, you know, lead by example.

Michael Koenig: So absolutely walking the walk and letting others see how you're doing it. Are there more components that go into your leadership style, specifically within smaller-stage companies? It's a roller coaster, lots of ups and downs, lots of twists and turns, certainly some uncertainty. How do you approach that with your team to keep them focused, to keep them motivated and excited?

Joe Meyer: I found what works best is that you need to be open and transparent to a large degree. I mean, you can't be overly transparent and open, meaning, you know, there's some things that are best left kind of unsaid. But especially when you're going kind of through bumps or potholes or if you're going sideways or even potentially going downwards, you need to let your team know what's going on because they know at the end of the day something's going on. And you got to let them know that you're aware of it and what you're doing about it and what you're planning to— what the strategy is to fly through those clouds and get back into, you know, smooth air. And try to do it in a way where you're not unnerved, where you're steady. You know, and I often say more informally than formally, you know, I've seen so many things over the years in these startups I've been a part of. You know, it is a roller coaster, and oftentimes you're in the potholes or, you know, about to hit the potholes or at the dirt of the potholes. And, and, you know, the, the, you know, the ups, uh, are less than the downs. The downs are definitely more than the ups more often than not, especially from the ground up. And, uh, you know, you just have to have the stomach for that. And, um, you know, you have to find people that are also have the stomach for that and are motivated to work through those challenges, to get the plane flying stably again and, uh, gaining altitude. So, you know, I often say that, you know, the experience I have gives you perspective, and it makes you realize that those potholes and that roller coaster is going to continue happening. You shouldn't be surprised by it. What's surprising is kind of what the next pothole is, because sometimes you come across potholes you haven't seen before in your career and you have to work through them. Uh, you know, I was talking to one of my investors the other day, an angel, and we're going through a, you know, a little bit of a challenge as it relates to, you know, something regarding our cap table right now. And he's like, Joe, have you ever kind of, you know, been through this experience before? And my viewpoint was, well, that's a really good question. No one's really asked me that question, but 'Now that you have, no, I haven't been through this particular challenge before, but I've been through many others and we'll get through this one too,' you know.

Michael Koenig: That makes a lot of sense. As a leader of a company, it can be lonely at the top because there are certain things that you can't necessarily share, as you mentioned. How do you stay positive and focused when you hit those potholes?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, I'd say it's even lonelier in the type of companies I run, or I have run in the past, too, startups which are kind of lean and mean, not full-blown management team type startups. You know, when you have full-blown management teams, you can at least, you know, have other folks on the management team who you can commensurate with. So, you know, I don't know if I have a good answer to it. You know, I just wake up every morning and fight the good fight., you know, and fight for another day. And if I am starting to feel like I'm not motivated personally or not, you know, fired up to do what I need to do, then I start questioning why I'm doing what I'm doing. But almost always, at least with these last two startups, I found many more reasons to keep fighting that good fight rather than not. And certainly there have been times with this startup, ExecThread, as well as my last one, HopStop, where things were looking dire, things, you know, we were in dire straits, things were really looking, you know, not so positive, you know, questioned whether you can make it, whether you can meet payroll, you know, whether you can survive. You know, for me, not for many others, but I think for me, uh, or I suspect not for many others, failure is a motivator for me. Um, and, and meaning, you know, I've been through failure before as a founder and as a startup twice. And, uh, it's not fun. And you work just as hard at the failures as you do the successes. So I don't want to fail again. So, you know, for me, that is a, that is a motivator. Some people say it's not a healthy motivator, but you need something to, you know, weather these storms. And whatever, whatever it takes, in my opinion. Absolutely.

Michael Koenig: So you've spoken about the smaller and younger companies that you've worked at. You've also worked at Apple and AOL and eBay. I mean, these are major, major companies, lots of management layers, things of that nature. I mean, this must have been a bit jarring, uh, is that— as someone who is that hands-on operator?

Joe Meyer: Yes and no. I mean, I would say that my two startup successes as an operator which was Qwigo being acquired by AOL and HopStop being acquired by Apple. And, you know, the verdict is still out on ExecThread, of course. But, um, happened after two founding failures and also happened after I had spent, you know, around 4 years at eBay, uh, as an operator and a general manager. So I had already been through and gained the perspective of failing as a founder early in my career. And I had already gained the perspective of what it's like to be at a big company early in my career prior to these startup successes. So that by the time, you know, the two startup successes materialized and, you know, we became part of AOL and I became an executive at AOL for a year post-acquisition, or, you know, Apple acquired HopStop and I stayed with Apple you know, for 2 and a half years post-acquisition, I, I knew what big companies were like, um, to know what to expect for the most part. And most big companies operate very similarly from the, from the perspective of if you're not a big company guy or professional, you know, most big companies are not your cup of tea, but you do what you need to do to make sure that that startup that you you were part of that were acquired is successfully integrated into the mothership, into the acquiring company. And you also have an exit plan too, either in advance or along the way to figure out kind of how long you're going to stay there, but adding value along the way. So, you know, do I have aspirations to go work at a big company the rest of my career? Never say never, but probably not. Do I have aspirations to sell ExecThread to another big company? Yeah, if the timing is right and if the opportunity is right. And would I be willing to stay at that acquiring company for a year or two to make sure that it's a successfully integrated acquisition? Yeah, I mean, as long as it's worth my while, you know. But do I have plans to stay there long term? Probably not, unless it was a really entrepreneurial sort of or entrepreneurial sort of opportunity at that big company. So I guess my point is, is like, don't, you know, go in with eyes— I mean, do go in with eyes wide open. Know what you're, you know, don't expect like it's going to be different just because it's a different big company. It's probably going to be very similar.

Michael Koenig: I'm so glad that you talked about the exits and the integrations because this was next to my list. It's almost like you looked at my notes, uh, in terms of those exits, acquisitions, they can be really jarring for the team and they introduce uncertainty. And so what have you learned about the integration and acquisition process to lead your teams through that uncertainty as someone who's gone through it so frequently now?

Joe Meyer: The other day, my— the startups I've been a part of, you know, were longstanding startups by the time they got acquired. I think HopStop was an 8-year-old startup when it was acquired. Quigo was at least a 7, if not 8-year-old startup when it was acquired. Xactra just reached its 6th anniversary since its founding. So, you know, my viewpoint is unless you're going IPO and you, you think you can be a separate, a standalone long-term company as a standalone You know, most people that work at these startups know that the, the end goal is an acquisition, the right acquisition, not just any acquisition. And, you know, by the time you reach year 7, 8, 9, 10, you're pretty much, you know, ready for it, you know, um, especially if you have people on the team that have been there, you know, along the way and most of the time. Um, so it's not as jarring, it's kind of evolutionary, and it's a new challenge. And you also get some kind of vindication or kind of fulfillment from it as well, right? You feel like the fruition of your labor, right? Um, so, you know, for me, I, I haven't found these acquisitions jarring. Uh, but then again, you know, they were two successful acquisitions, you know, the right, the right acquiring company at the right time.

Michael Koenig: So It sounds like there's almost an aligned expectation that maybe is unspoken amongst you and your team that, yeah, this is the end goal, this is where we're going to get to. And so when that end goal happens, that acquisition happens, it's more celebratory because you've achieved that end goal.

Joe Meyer: I would say, you know, celebratory, yes, but more kind of fulfilling and satisfying, to be quite honest. Just kind of like you could let out a big breath, you know what I mean? You know, it's kind of nerve-wracking to be a private company sometimes because you have to keep innovating, you know, especially in the tech space. You have to keep innovating, you know, competition's always kind of encroaching on you one way or another, you know. The longer you go on, the greater chance there is of your technology becoming more legacy. You know, retaining people is tough as the years go on. You know, filling new role— new key roles with new people, you know, always tough, especially in this environment. So yeah, it's satisfying to know that the fruits of your labor were worth it. And yeah, you know, at the same time, you can't run a company with a singular focus of getting acquired. You know, a lot of people say, ask me, especially during interview processes, like, what's your end goal, or what's the end objective here? You know, and I'm honest with them, which is, you know, we do ultimately want to get— achieve liquidity, you know. And, you know, I'd be lying to you if I didn't say that. It's not the only goal, but it is a— it's one of the primary goals. But it doesn't guide our decision-making process from a strategic perspective. It doesn't dictate how and why we do things. Do we always have it in the back of our mind of, you know, uh, how can we kind of, uh, steer this venture towards liquidity? Yeah, it does. But it does enter my mind from time to time, and some people on my team, but, but it's, it's less rather than more.

Michael Koenig: You talked a bit previously about those unexpected challenges that pop up? This is one of my favorite questions to ask. You know, we have all had those moments where you see that new problem and you're like, wow, I did not expect to see this. Do you have one that comes to mind that you can share?

Joe Meyer: One that comes to mind, I'd almost rather not share it, um, to be quite honest. Um, okay, that's fine. You know, I will say that, uh, most any challenge you can work through or overcome. Sometimes there's a challenge or two that might be, you know, exceptionally difficult to overcome, but most challenges you can overcome as long as you think through it, as long as you plot through it, as long as you have the persistence and perseverance to, to, to keep, you know, moving forward and and figuring out how to overcome it. You know, so there's no, there's no challenge that can be thrown at you that is so immense that it's not able to be overcome the vast majority of the time.

Michael Koenig: And experience begets success when facing challenges. So with each one, you file away how you approached it, what went well, what maybe didn't, and you're learning for the next one that comes up.

Joe Meyer: We've faced some challenges in the recent past here where some members of my team were aware of it, and my perspective to them was, "This sucks. This is another challenge. We'll get through it. We've gotten through the past ones. Don't worry. We'll get through this one." And if I wasn't saying that and believing it, then it would make that challenge that much more immense. But I think, you know, it's kind of like, you know, the Sully US Air example, right? You need a steady hand at the wheel. You know, it's not to say that I have not gotten emotional at times or shown some nervousness around some of these challenges at times, but more often than not you know, um, I acknowledge the challenge. I acknowledge that it is a challenge. I acknowledge that I'm frustrated that there's yet another challenge, just like everyone else is. But I also say, listen, like, we've seen challenges before. We'll get through this one, you know. I don't know how we're going to get through it, but we'll get through it. And just, I think it's— I, I gotta believe that it's— it calms other people when, you know, there's someone at the top who is acknowledging the challenge, frustrated by the challenge himself, but also acknowledging that, you know, we won't get through this. You know, you don't panic.

Michael Koenig: Great advice. So last question, what advice would you give exec-level job seekers for landing that next perfect fit, aside from joining the ExecThread community, of course?

Joe Meyer: I think that what has worked well for executive-level job seekers over the years is what will continue to work well for them, which is leverage your network, leverage connections, leverage the introductions that can come from that network, leverage the influence that might materialize from that network. Proactively do so, you know, that will continue to be the primary way that executives find their next role. It's not going to be from applying to a job or even finding a job on ExecThread, to be quite honest. But ExecThread realizes that, and because of that, we actually don't have, for the vast majority of opportunities on our platform, a prototypical apply experience. We have an apply experience for a minority of jobs on our platform, but for the vast majority of them, 95%, there's a reveal experience where you can reveal the name of the hiring manager. You can reveal hiring manager's title and contact information and name. You can reveal the name of the recruiting firm working on the search. You can reveal the names of the recruiters and titles of the recruiters working on the search, both internal and external. You can reveal their contact information. We put a little snipe there right after you do the reveal and say, "Listen, unless you know this person directly, we would actually recommend you not reach out to them directly. We recommend you go on to your LinkedIn network and find out where you have shared connections and try to get introductions to them." Those that follow that advice usually are met with more success than those that just reach out to those folks directly with no warm introduction. But we can't, we can't handhold people every step of the way. All we can do is, you know, inform, educate, provide the access, and then, you know, and make recommendations and let them take it from there. But, you know, that's why our, uh, our experience is so much different than a typical job board, because we do realize it's all about relationships, or mostly and we tell you who the key decision maker is, the hiring manager, and how to get a hold of him or her. We tell you who the influencers are and the gatekeepers are, the recruiters, and tell you exactly who they are. Then with that information, it's up to you to figure out how to best leverage that. I can't tell you how many times we get executive recruiters, especially new ones, saying, "There's no applying experience. What do I do?" I'm like, well, You need to ask that question, that's probably not a good sign.

Michael Koenig: Yeah, then you just don't get how these things work just yet.

Joe Meyer: But yeah, and I can't say that, obviously we respond very professionally to those sorts of inquiries, but, um, but I think you know what I'm saying.

Michael Koenig: Well, there you go, sound advice from someone who knows it.

Joe Meyer: And I would say, you know, just a little plug for ExecThread, where we do help besides, you know, helping you figure out how to leverage your connections is we provide you with more access. There are over 3,000 retained executive searches on ExecThread right now across a myriad of functions and levels and geos and different sizes and stages of companies. And these are jobs you won't find on other job boards, you know, because they are confidential roles, or if they're not confidential, they're very hard to access on your own. And even if there are a few jobs on ExecThread which are on other platforms, we will at least tell you who the decision maker and gatekeepers are, where those other platforms won't. So there's that differentiation. So at the end of the day, you leverage ExecThread to gain access to these opportunities so that you don't have to leverage your network to figure out where the openings are. You leverage your network to figure out how you get the foot in the door. For the opportunities that most interest you and for which you're most qualified. There you have it.

Michael Koenig: Joe, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Where can people go to learn more about ExecThread and keep up with you?

Joe Meyer: Yeah, simply go to executethread.com, E-X-E-C-T-H-R-E-A-D.com. And if you want to sign up, go to executethread.com/signup. Signup, and you know, it should be pretty self-explanatory.