Diego Camberos, Vodafone Qatar COO on 5G and World Cup Prep

Michael Koenig: Hello and welcome to Between Two COOs, where phenomenal chief operating officers come to share their knowledge, advice, and at the very end, a crazy story. I'm your host, Michael Koenig, and I'm recovering from a bout of laryngitis, so you'll have to excuse my voice. Today, our guest joins us from the Middle East. I'm excited to welcome Diego Camberos, COO of Vodafone Qatar. Vodafone Group is one of the largest telecommunication companies in the world, operating across Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and Oceania, with annual revenues in the $45 billion range. Like Vodafone, Diego has spent his career operating across the world in the US, Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East for the likes of McDonald's and Burger King before he switched to telecom. Prior to Vodafone, Diego was the CEO of Tigo Milicom, running their businesses first in Rwanda and and then in Senegal. Diego and his team have taken on the monumental task of rolling out 5G across Qatar in advance of the World Cup happening right there for the first time in the Middle East this November. Diego, welcome. I'm excited to have you on.

Diego Camberos: Thank you very much, Michael. A pleasure.

Michael Koenig: So we have a lot to talk about, including World Cup prep, but let's take a step back. There really isn't a strict path to landing in the COO role. What was yours? How did you end up in the seat?

Diego Camberos: It's not that complicated story, you know. Prior to this role, I was working for Tigo Millicom for 9.5 years, Swedish company, which I loved. And I was running the operation as CEO in Senegal. And then I got the opportunity to work with Vodafone, which is a brand I always admire and love. So for me, it was not much of a challenge. I mean, you know, to just think about moving into Vodafone, new experience, and take the role as a CEO and coming to the Middle East, which also was a different experience. You know, I've never been here working, you know, visited Dubai and things like that, but also get experience of working in the Gulf. Yes.

Michael Koenig: That's amazing. And you've lived and moved across the globe, I mean, several times. Here in the US, we consider moving the 381 miles from San Francisco to LA as a big lift. You've moved from your home country in Bolivia to Colombia to the Dominican Republic to way across the globe in Rwanda and Senegal, and now in the Middle East in, in Qatar. You, you appear to be on a continuous eastward trajectory. Tell us about that. Did opportunity come knocking and keep knocking or was this all by design? And what country is on your next stop?

Diego Camberos: I think the life of an expat starts like this, you know? And I heard this so many times that when people get the opportunity to go to another country, if you're single, it's easier. When you're married, You say, well, we're just going for 2 years, let's experience it and let's see it. And I've met so many expats that choose this path of life in which they try to go for 2 years and they end up spending most of their life moving around different countries. And that was exactly what happened to me. I went to school in the US, came back to Bolivia, worked for McDonald's. Then we got the opportunity to, to move countries and, you know, having a wife that is also willing to move and kids, I also had no— well, we never asked him, but I had no issue about moving. We started moving around and, you know, opportunities come and you want better things and then becomes almost like a habit, I will tell you, you know, so we become a family like You say, okay, move. We have the checklist, containers, you know who to call, and you move on, you know. So that's the expert life that many, many of us have chosen.

Michael Koenig: That's fantastic. Let's talk about all of these different cultures. The world has never been smaller, and the power of the internet and remote work has made it possible for folks from across the globe to work together like never before. Navigating those cultural differences can be a real challenge though. How have you gone about adapting to each country and their cultural norms?

Diego Camberos: I think the more you move, and it's not all the culture, I mean, because also you have different cultures within companies, right? So if you also change companies, you have a different culture, some more corporate, some more entrepreneurial, you know, some more pro-risk, some more no risk at all, etc., etc. But also, The different countries have different customs, I would say, right? And you need to respect it. And I think it's important that before you go to a place, you kind of do your research and understand what is, you know, what you can do or what you cannot do, right? And I think that's a must because then you show the respect for the local culture, which is very, very important. So it's a journey actually. And the more time you spend there, the more you understand. I mean, if you are in certain countries in Africa, in Senegal was an experience because depends on the seniority you have or the age you have, you got more respect and you have to go and say hi. And so it was like a ritual which I loved, you know, that respect for the elderly. So it was not only about like what's your role, your position, it's how old you were and experience you have, you know. So I think that's one trait of the culture, but you know, you have many, you have different cultures and different customs also that you need to abide by. But it's interesting because it opens your mind into what to respect, right? And especially opens your mind into how strong you have to create a corporate culture to kind of overlap this or, or, or cover, you know. And in countries like, like here in Qatar, in which the company has, I think, 61 or 67 nationalities, to have a strong corporate culture is very important because, you know, you have different nationalities working, intermingling together, uh, and, and you need to be very clear on communication, for example. Because of the value, because the culture, the experiences in the past, you have to be very precise on how to communicate. You can think about green and assume that green is what you want, but you know, if you're coming perhaps from Bangladesh or Pakistan, you might think light green. If you're coming from America, you might think dark green. So I mean, just time living in different countries and different cultures teach you this and give you that experience to be more and more precise on this communication, which becomes very important when you're building a culture, you know.

Michael Koenig: Let's dive in a little bit more into that. 67 nationalities and creating a culture that marries and bridges all of those different nationalities. I mean, if working with someone from the Philippines and working from with someone from well across the world. I mean, these are very different styles. So you talked about being more specific, right? If I'm saying green, I want a light green. But what about in terms of just the harmony and marrying those cultures? And how have you gone about this? Is there training? Is there a manual? Like, how is Vodafone done it so that you have those 67 nationalities?

Diego Camberos: There's never a manual for these things, you know. I mean, you get a lot of the basics when you do your MBA or different leadership courses and when you do effective communication and all these training courses that you take. But I think it's how you go by working with people, and I think that's very important. And I mean, this is the 10th country I work in, and you always hear the same. This is not the Qatari way, this is not the Haitian way, this is not the Bolivian way, or this is the Bolivian way, this is Dominican way. So I think you respect the culture, but also you create clear rules and clear values that have to be respected and lived by when you're doing business in different countries by different companies. And a good example, I think McDonald's has one of the strongest corporate cultures I've lived. I mean, I spent 9 years with them, so it doesn't matter where they are, the processes, the training are quite similar, and that's how they maintain the quality, right? So I think they must create a strong corporate culture in order to maintain those standards, you know, and I think it's the same with Vodafone, you know, you get the values from the brand, you take the way we do business, and you apply it in all the markets that we work on, respecting the local culture, but on the business side, it is how we do it. I mean, for example, a big difference I found when I joined Vodafone was that we were very precise and very focused and disciplined on doing everything by business cases. When in my previous company, it was a lot more entrepreneurial, right? And that's a culture, corporate culture that this company have, and you respect it, you adapt, and you live with that. So it doesn't matter where you come from, you have to live by those things, you know. Or some companies talk more on PowerPoint presentations than emails, right? So when you say send me the information, you get a couple of slides instead of a summary email. Or sometimes they Depending on the culture, it's, they like long emails, some other one very short. So those are little things that you keep learning and I think you adapt it to the culture, right?

Michael Koenig: Is there something specific to Vodafone that you've learned that's been different that if you went back and you said, okay, Diego, younger self, do this because it's really going to help you in those first roles in telecom and in Rwanda and Senegal. Is there something that you learned now that you wish you had known back then?

Diego Camberos: I think you take the best of every company and every country you work on, right? I think for me, some of the learning from Vodafone is they're very focused on quality and there's no discussion on the quality we provide. And the quality you need to produce, right? And they're very driven by data, you know. So decisions are really disciplined decisions, I would say. Since I saw other companies in which you are more entrepreneurial, you know, you take more risk, you take shorter decisions sometimes, and here is a lot more processes, you know, and it might even sound sometimes very complex, but I think when you're running this kind of business and you are expanding a global brand, I think also makes sense. So that discipline that Vodafone has, I think that's a very good thing to emulate. Again, it could be perceived as not as positive sometimes or very positive, but I think it's something that I would have taken and emulate at least in part before.

Michael Koenig: And Vodafone Group is so interesting in that it has operations in so many different countries with separate executive teams. Can you tell us a little bit, what's it like to be part of that type of an organization and how do you navigate the group versus the local teams? As COO, that must present a pretty interesting set of constraints or opportunities.

Diego Camberos: I think it's great because you get access to so many talented people that it's great, you know, and that's why I was talking about quality. So when you have a challenge, a business challenge or normal challenge in your operation, you can always get experience around somebody that has done it, has lived it, or have an idea how to solve it. So, and I think that leveraging across operation is very important. Practice sharing, which Vodafone does very well, I think is very effective, you know. So, and then you can adapt it to the local culture, to the local environment, to the local needs, or take parts of it and do it, right? So I think it's that leveraging of talent or using different talent from different places, and I think it's quite innovating. And then you have more mature markets, you know, the German market is very mature, very mature on fixed, you know, Portugal, I know, I visited and they had, I think they had a fantastic marketing team and they did great on fixed as well. So when we were launching fixed, of course we called them and say, you know, what we shouldn't do, right? Or how do we structure it? And then you get a part which is, you know, more mature and more complex and another one that is smaller but more agile perhaps. And then you get the best and get advice. So I think that's very, very important when you operate in this corporate environment, right?

Michael Koenig: And it sounds like Vodafone has created bridges between these different countries pretty well and the executive teams operating there. How have they gone about it?

Diego Camberos: I think there's a lot of meetings. Well, prior COVID, there were more traveling and then you could visit and there were a lot of these commercial meetings, marketing meetings, all hands, brand, finance, etc., in which you build your network, right? But I mean, I've seen it. If you get the contact of someone and you need help, you just reach and you will get an answer. Right? So I think that's part of the spirit, I think, of the company in order to go about across, right? And as I mentioned, you have different operations with different expertise, you know, what Turk is doing on digital or what Vodacom has been doing across on financial services, you know, the M-Pesa example, you can always get expertise on whatever data centers, etc. So you just have to reach, you know. I think as long as you're not shy and you're willing to reach out, you will always get an answer. And I think that that's very nice from Vodafone, you know, that you always get an answer and they're always willing to help and very talented people, you know, coming from different parts.

Michael Koenig: That's fantastic because running a business, regardless of the role you're in, you're always busy. So being Being able to take time and share some knowledge, have a conversation with someone that doesn't necessarily affect your success is something rather novel. Let's talk about your role as COO. The machinery of a telecom is vast, from building and maintaining the network infrastructure to customer care to finance and commercial. The COO role can encompass any number of these areas. What are your areas of responsibility?

Diego Camberos: I'm in charge of the revenue generating. So in Qatar, we are organized in a little bit different way from the normal opco. Normal opco don't have a COO, but in this case, the office of the COO encompass the revenue generating part and customer care, whatever touches customer. Through the digital part, customer operations, enterprise, and consumer. So that's pretty much what we do. And we have a CTO which takes care of technology and the network, and we work closely in order to make the success, you know, I mean, and to move the company the way we have been moving it in the last 4 years now, which has been quite positive. So we're looking— my role is always looking into the commercial strategy part always and the revenue generating part mainly and experience, of course, you know.

Michael Koenig: You just referenced something, which is the success that you all have had over the past 4 years and your first quarter financial results came in for 2022 with 25% revenue growth, 28% growth in EBITDA. And a 63% increase in net profit. And you all recently introduced an IoT device for tracking your belongings, basically Tile and AirTag, but better. This doesn't happen by accident. What are you all doing right? And what is, what are you, Diego, bringing to this business that is helping the company and the team achieve such success?

Diego Camberos: I think we've been on a journey for the last 5 years in order to really turn around the business and generate the number we're generating because the number we're generating, it's quite impressive after 10 years of operations in Vodafone, right? And we took an approach which is taking the best practice of many things that we saw in Vodafone, adapting it, but One thing that's very important is we focus on radical simplification, you know, and I think that makes a big difference in what we do across the company and made a big difference on the halo effect that this created. Because at the end of the day, as an old boss I used to have told me, there are good business and bad business, you know, do the good ones, avoid the bad ones. So when you get into this and just start simplifying and simplifying things from processes, from the way we think, the way we do things, the portfolio we have, the way we approach customer experience, etc., etc. I think it just creates this journey, right? Also, our board supported us to really put our network up there, you know, very strong network. We did the necessary investment to develop a very strong network competitive in the market, right? And then also to launch new services that diversify our product portfolio and also give more options to our customers, which balance our revenue profile. So I think all this put together were important. And I think part of this radical simplification is we wanted to be lean. Treat the company money as your own. And I thought that worked because we also did a lot of optimization and we don't call it programs because programs have a beginning and an end. We always do it, right? Otherwise you say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I optimize it, now I can spend more. And that's not the case. We're always trying to be very careful where we invest our money because It takes hard work to make it, you know, and I think all this combined, it just helped. One important part was the people we recruit, you know, a wide variety of expertise that also helped to achieve a lot of things we're achieving these days.

Michael Koenig: Radical simplification. Tell us a little bit more about that. What goes beyond treating the company dollars as your own?

Diego Camberos: It's a culture, it's part of the culture, you know. And I think this is a good example because I think when we started that we're looking into, yes, we should optimize cost and we should be better, etc., etc. And it turned out into a value that I think I know we have it now and we call it being lean, right? And it turned from something that somehow is perceived negative to something become a value. So people are proud that we can do it better, faster, and cheaper. And being a challenge in a market like this, that just works. So if you're launching a company and it's your own money, you would do the same. You wouldn't do anything different, right? So you take a little bit away this, we're Vodafone and we're a group and, you know, we have this, of course we have a global brand, but also We treat this company as with the size and the efficiency that we should have it, you know.

Michael Koenig: Which is even more impressive when you think about the product and the impact that you have. There's, we're talking about telecom, we're talking about core network and country infrastructure. If you're doing things faster In software, for instance, oh, we had an issue and we can really correct that, but it's not necessarily affecting the core day-to-day of someone's life in terms of being able to call 911. And we saw this with the recent Rogers outage in Canada. And that actually affected the— we're talking half of the population maybe, and it brought things to a halt. How do you balance the pride in doing it faster, cheaper, and better with the need to have checks to make sure that what is being done is going to sustain the network and the infrastructure that you provide?

Diego Camberos: You don't compromise quality. That's the main point. And I think also that's very important. So you have certain standards to maintain, you have certain standards to live by, and then you always can do it better, cheaper, I guess, or more efficient, but you don't compromise quality. As long as you don't compromise quality, you're fine. So we don't make that trade between that quality and the sacrifice on quality versus what else we do. And a good example is, for example, we're very mindful of our international business, right? Because the type of customers we have, because we are an expat country, people, I mean, most of the country are expats, so we need to have premium quality when you make calls, international calls, for example. So we don't, you know, in other companies you could leverage a little bit on that, on cost and things like that. We don't. We know that we shouldn't. So we take it and actually we follow it specific APIs to maintain our quality. Why? Because we need to give that experience, full stop. So that's something that we don't discuss. Now, can you do it more efficient within those parameters? Of course, you know, and you always aim for that, but there are things that you don't negotiate, you know. So I think having those values work. I mean, these years many people talk about digital transformation, right? So this is the biggest buzzword in the whole industry. And digital here and digital transformation in agile and squads and scrum, and I get it. But sometimes because we get these buzzwords, people think more complicated, people think expensive. I need to change my whole IT, I need to do this, I need to get more tools, I need consultants, etc. Here, one of the approaches we had is we say we're gonna go into this transformation digital, However, we translated into specific KPIs. I mean, one of them was we will reduce our call center calls by 50% in 3 years. We're on the way. Now, are we transforming digital? Because to do that, you have to go digital. You have no other choice, right? But instead of calling digital transformation, we just focus on reducing the calls and reducing the calls by going after the flows in the design of the product. And I give you an anecdote when we start, and I took this from Groupe actually, but I was telling my team the business principle would be we don't want customers visiting us, we don't want customers calling us. They said, Diego, what do you mean? And I said, of course we want it, but we want it for the different reasons. We don't want them because there are problems with the products. So that generated an effect in which we had to go back and solve the design of the products, the portfolio, commercial portfolio we have of services in order people to come and see opportunities at the stores or call us for upgrades or things like that instead of complaints, right? And that just works. So this transformation is way on the way, but with a more simplistic approach, if you will.

Michael Koenig: And so much of transformation starts with product, fixing the bugs, fixing the leaks, or treating the cause and not just the symptoms so that you can reduce just those basic things of, hey, I'm having trouble paying my bill to, hey, I want to upgrade, right? I want to stick with you. I'm happy with you all. I want to pay you more money and have a great experience from that perspective. Makes a lot of sense. And translating it all into specific KPI that is going to dictate how you get there, not necessarily that you just have to adopt a new solution because it's the latest buzzword, as you mentioned.

Diego Camberos: Yes. And it's, are the tools that we have good enough? Yes. Okay, then let's make it work, you know, and things like, okay, what's the penetration of your of your app, how many times people use it, how much are you recharging, your e-commerce, etc., etc. All these things that are very measurable and to do one of them, to progress in one of these KPIs, you have to do work and you have to improve your IT, etc., etc. So this customer experience for us is very important. And we have a mission to emulate whatever you do in the store when you come to see us, that you could do it on your app, you know, you could do it on digital, you know, whatever they call omnichannel and all these things. But so when you simplify it, it's a nice challenge, but then you need to split it in pieces in order to improve it, right? It might sound very simplistic, but it has worked for us so far.

Michael Koenig: So in the future, customer calls are just going to be like, hey, how's it going? I just wanted to check in on you, CSR rep at Vodafone. How's everything going? I haven't talked to you.

Diego Camberos: The next call we receive should be, can I please preorder the next Samsung, the next Apple iPhone, or things like that? You know what I mean? Yes, I would like to upgrade my fixed plan with the full program of TV and things like that. So we want to have a different interaction with the customer. More and more, as you know, people want to do things themselves, easy, 2 clicks, buy, pay, reserve, deliver. When we look into everything from experience and we break it down and we try to improve every point, then automatically from that customer experience improvement, you have to do investment, you have to improve processes, you have to hire different people with different skill sets, etc. So you see the halo effect I was mentioning, it's just very powerful to do this, you know, because if we look into my experience, I mean, if you look in to from the other way and say, I want a digital transformation and, you know, go and compete head-to-head versus the digital players, it gets complex and it gets expensive.

Michael Koenig: And no one wakes up in the morning and says, geez, I want to call customer support.

Diego Camberos: Yes, yes, exactly. I mean, we're a long way to go, but we're very happy with the progress, you know, because I think, and we measure everything, we measure Every touch point of customers, it's measured. And we're among the— in call center, we're number 1 in group. And in digital, we are number 2 or 3, but very close, you know. So we become very competitive on these benchmarks.

Michael Koenig: Well, let's talk about competition, more specifically football, or as our American listeners know it, the type of football that you don't use your hands for. As I mentioned, this November, for the first time ever, the World Cup's coming to the Middle East, right in your backyard in Qatar. Now, Qatar has a population of 3 million people, and The New York Times estimate that the World Cup will bring an additional 1 million visitors to the country. That's like 50 million selfies posted to social, 200 million tags that are basically emoji and like maybe 5 additional phone calls because no one really calls anyone anymore. But how have you all prepared to make sure that everyone can still post to TikTok? Take us behind the scenes.

Diego Camberos: Oh, it's been a lot of work because it's not only capacity, you know, because that's, I would say it's easier because it just, you put the CapEx behind, they put more sites, connectivity, etc., right? I think it's a lot of the planning, and we've been working for this for 2 years, and we're active part of, uh, because we, we want the World Cup to be a success, not only for Vodafone. I mean, we want it to be for the country, you know, because I think it's the last World Cup in which it's going to be done in one country, and it's, uh, is, is the only World Cup in which if you are lucky to get tickets for every game you would be able to see every game because, you know, you can go from stadium to stadium because of— So now, that put additional pressure because a lot of the fans would be in one place, right? We have a responsibility, a commitment to the country in which we operate. So we have put the investment, we have put more sites, same as the competition, and we're ready. You know, we've been working hard on this. I think the challenge is more on the rest. How to deal with where are going to be the fans, how to deal with them, how to give the best experience, how to give them the right product, you know, different nationalities, how we're going to communicate, etc., etc. So I mean, we have a full plan that we've been working, as I tell you, 2 years. So I'm happy we're almost there, but there's been a lot of work from the teams to make sure that whoever comes and visits us will leave the country with a great experience, right?

Michael Koenig: That's amazing. And you mentioned one person might be able to see all the games. That's because, well, first, Qatar is a smaller country than the United States, but also those stadiums have been essentially positioned within 45 minutes of each other. And there's been so much infrastructure investment. I think the, the estimates at $120 billion so far that has been invested in the infrastructure, and part of that is the 5G rollout. Can you take us into the operation of that? Most of us like hear 5G and we think, okay, 4G plus 1G equals 5G, and it's that simple, right?

Diego Camberos: I mean, there's a lot of buzz on 5G, but I mean, we have a We have rolled out extensively our 5G network here, you know, and you know, in this region, a lot of the operators are doing it aggressively. Our 4G is a fantastic, it was a fantastic network, you know, but we had to upgrade to even give a better experience, you know, so it's been a challenge for the technical team, not only because it's new technology, for 4G, they knew how to optimize it all the time. I think here they had to learn very fast how to optimize it. And the beginning also the technology was not at the level and even the manufacturers still optimizing a lot of things, correct? So I think that has been a challenge and it was a great example how operators work with the manufacturers on this. But for us become, it's hard to explain because we've been living 5G for 2 years now. So it's become normal. For us, it becomes normal. The speeds of 5G, we get up to 1 giga, you know. So that's what people will experience, especially, and we're making sure that you have that experience when you are at the stadium, right? I think it's going to be whoever comes and visit us, they're going to have a great network experience in the country. Internet speed, we are top 3 in the world. Yeah. So you have to maintain that that standard, you know what I mean? Also, you will watch the World Cup through the Vodafone network, so the broadcasting from the stadium will be in our network, and that's a huge responsibility, and there was a huge work from the technical team. I mean, part of the logistics is you're going to have a permanent team 24 hours on each stadium making sure that everything is working 100%. We have created command centers or NOCs in Qatar in order only to watch this and separate it from the normal NOC in order to make sure that we're real-time monitoring everything to make sure that people that can have a great experience and people that abroad are watching the game flawless, you know.

Michael Koenig: That's amazing. So not only will Qatar have the eyes of the world on them, but quite literally Vodafone's going to have the eyes of the world. That's amazing.

Diego Camberos: Yeah, I mean, we're not the sponsor, but for me, I mean, we're proud to say that we're going to be doing that, you know. So we compete and we got the contract in order to do that, and that just shows how prepared we're going to be for the World Cup. It has been a journey because it's I mean, Doha and Qatar is small. And somebody put this in context for me because, yeah, they say 1 million will come, 1.4 to 1.7 million. You're gonna have around half a million, you know, all the time because people come and go, right? You're gonna have around 16,000 people arriving to the airport every day. You have 40 flights only from the region every day. So, you know, I mean, you need to design the journeys and you need to design how you're going to deal with all this. You know, something that, or a friend of mine told me, he said, imagine you take Miami, you lift it and you put it in Qatar, you know? So the whole logistics of not only World Cup, the people living here, but the people coming to serve the people that are going to come, accommodations, roads, transportation, etc., etc. I mean, so we've been working through with many of the organizations in order to help, right? And also to make sure that people get a great experience that the country has the ambition to give, you know, to deliver the best World Cup ever, right?

Michael Koenig: It really is extraordinary. And that's how everything runs up the price tag that I had mentioned of $100, $120 billion because it's not just telecom infrastructure. It's how do you get people around the city? How do you get people from the airport? Where are people going to stay even? If you're having 1 million, your population is increasing even temporarily. How do you do that all? It's extraordinary.

Diego Camberos: For example, there's going to be thousands and thousands of new— I don't remember if it was 16,000 buses coming in order to accommodate the people. The new metro, it goes from stadium to stadium. So that's already operating for the last 2 years now. So it's, I mean, it's fantastic. If you go to the stadium, better take the metro than take the car because then you have to deal with the parking, for example, you know. Doubling the airport, making sure the immigration is is fast while you maintain the security, right? Bringing additional people for security to give the right experience. I mean, everything piles up, right? So hotels, they're gonna be different flights. They announced— Qatar announced the corridor with some other country in the region in order that if you don't want to stay in Qatar, you can stay in Oman, or you can stay in UAE and then come to see it in a flight, you know, like taking a bus pretty much. But that experience needs to be fast, right? So they put a lot of challenge on technology to do the facial recognition, passport scanning, the visa, or coming to the stadiums, all that, which has been a lot of work for everybody in, on that sense, and we were part of that. So it will be an experience. I think it would be something different.

Michael Koenig: And I have to ask, both Qatar and Senegal are in the World Cup in Group A. Who are you rooting for? And careful with your answer here.

Diego Camberos: I'm watching the game, by the way. I mean, they're different. I want Qatar to do well. I think they've been preparing. I, I like the way they have the team in Qatar approach the World Cup. So we know Senegal, the most of the Senegalese team plays in Europe. I think all of them playing real. So, so they're a good fast team. So they, you know, they expected to go far. Qatar is a team that has been building the experience, won the Asian Cup uh, but they've been together, same team and same coach, since they were, I think, uh, 17 or 18 years old. So I think they have good chemistry. They're very fit, so they can really run. Uh, so now they're gonna put this, uh, to test.

Michael Koenig: There you go, good answer. I think you'll be able to stay. Okay, it's time for my last and favorite question. We've all had those moments where we've seen something completely different, completely off the wall, and thought I never thought I'd see that. Do you have one that you can share with us?

Diego Camberos: Um, let me think. One of the things that when I moved to a country impressed me in a positive way, it was when I moved to Rwanda, actually, because it was my first time coming to Africa. And if you've never been in Africa, first, you, when, when you're not from Africa and you're outside, and you think of Africa, think it's everything the same, which is not true, right? And second is I was going to Rwanda straight without really knowing what to expect, and I was completely surprised how they were, because you have a, you know, come from Latin America and then living in, in, in the region, I saw a city that was completely clean. I have never been asked for any money while living there. The standards of cleaning is like my culture, for example, talking about culture, people don't sell food on the street and people don't eat on the street because they make it dirty. You see, those little things are from— and I saw, okay, it's the capital maybe, but outside will be different, and it wasn't. And I went all through Rwanda. We were deploying the network and all that. Now you saw, you know, rural areas, but completely clean. I mean, you would see trash cans nailed to trees in order for you to use the trash in the rural area. So for me, that's something that really impressed me. And And I thought if a lot of our country would have that discipline and that way of thinking, we would have a different world perhaps, you know.

Michael Koenig: Well, Diego, thanks so much for joining me. Where can people go to keep up with you?

Diego Camberos: I'm in LinkedIn. I'm always available. And I hope I see most of the guys that are listening come to the World Cup in Qatar and really experience something that I think is going to be unique.

Michael Koenig: You have extra tickets for me, right? And a couch.

Diego Camberos: I'll give you a good price.